Landnews

Landwork or Lack Thereof

Anonymous Member08-27-2019 14:39

  • 1.  Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 07-30-2019 08:03
    It is perplexing to me as to why I cannot find a contract position with a Land Broker anywhere. It appears that if you do not live in the local area of the project, you are automatically eliminated from being hired. I used to enjoy the travel form state to state, county to county doing what I love. Now that this type of arrangement appears to be obsolete, I am very concerned about the future of the American Landman who is now shackled. Also on another note I am hearing through the grapevine that there is presence of Age Discrimination that is going on as well. For those older Landmen, I would refrain from putting any dates on your resume.

    ------------------------------
    Robert Elrod
    REM Land Services, Inc.
    Oklahoma City OK
    (405) 641-2713
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-06-2019 16:16
    I believe a lot of this focus toward "local only" hiring for landmen has to do with the per diems. The additional costs of housing people far from home eats into project budgets tremendously, and given the sheer number of working professionals in our industry, it seems easier for companies to find folks they don't have to pay per diems to in the areas where they have the work. Outside of large booms and the right price on a commodities market, the demand for landmen doesn't warrant per diem payments.

    As for age discrimination, in my experience a lot of that has to do with older generations being very loathe to accept new technologies in the workplace. Things like cloud computing, portable GIS, Augmented Reality, and online databases are vital to business these days and I saw a lot of very experienced landmen struggle with adopting to a work environment where these tools were becoming increasingly prevalent. The days of getting a deal done with crude maps, a Texas drawl, and a handshake have passed. Grantors are very savvy now, and the Internet has opened up things so much. Like so many industries, technology has disrupted the landman in sometimes very dramatic ways.

    ------------------------------
    Wes Temby
    Right of Way Agent
    (415) 407-2515
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-09-2019 16:13
    Hello Wes,

    I have to agree it is harder to find work for me there is not any kind of oil field work in or around Conroe, Texas where I live.  I do not understand the brokers not wanting to pay the per diem now for experienced people.  But times are always changing and we have to move on.

    My point on the age is I fall into the older generation that was not born with a computer in my hand. I worked with some young people in PA that were awesome. They had patience, they sat down with me for 5 or 10 minutes and showed me  where to go for their programs. They would allow me time to take a note as to where to go then click on this, then click here and so on, then how to document my information in the proper place. It only took one time for them to sit with me after that I used my notes once I had done it 3 or 4 times I had it and was able to get faster every time.

    On the other hand when I worked in Midland my boss complained that I did not have a $2K Dell and said he did not know anything about my HP computer so he would come to my desk and tell me to get up. He was quite large so I could not see what he was doing as he was getting me  to a program and then get up and say there you go as he was walking off. I had no idea of what he di or how he got to the place I needed. My point to this is, just because we are older does not mean we hate the computer, it is that younger people do not have the patience and the teaching skills that is needed to help people like me. I was told that I closed more ROW deals than the other 2 projects put together but I did have a computer problem and there was no one to help me.   Every company has different programs and we older people are really nice people and as for me I love working with the younger and older groups.

    Just my thoughts, I really need a job.  Thanks for listening
    Glenda Wyatt
    Conroe,Texas
    936-537-2515


    ------------------------------
    Glenda Wyatt
    (936) 537-2515
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-27-2019 14:40
    Edited by C. McPherren 08-28-2019 13:30


    Original Message:
    Sent: 08-08-2019 12:18
    From: Glenda Wyatt
    Subject: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Hello Wes,

    I have to agree it is harder to find work for me there is not any kind of oil field work in or around Conroe, Texas where I live.  I do not understand the brokers not wanting to pay the per diem now for experienced people.  But times are always changing and we have to move on.

    My point on the age is I fall into the older generation that was not born with a computer in my hand. I worked with some young people in PA that were awesome. They had patience, they sat down with me for 5 or 10 minutes and showed me  where to go for their programs. They would allow me time to take a note as to where to go then click on this, then click here and so on, then how to document my information in the proper place. It only took one time for them to sit with me after that I used my notes once I had done it 3 or 4 times I had it and was able to get faster every time.

    On the other hand when I worked in Midland my boss complained that I did not have a $2K Dell and said he did not know anything about my HP computer so he would come to my desk and tell me to get up. He was quite large so I could not see what he was doing as he was getting me  to a program and then get up and say there you go as he was walking off. I had no idea of what he di or how he got to the place I needed. My point to this is, just because we are older does not mean we hate the computer, it is that younger people do not have the patience and the teaching skills that is needed to help people like me. I was told that I closed more ROW deals than the other 2 projects put together but I did have a computer problem and there was no one to help me.   Every company has different programs and we older people are really nice people and as for me I love working with the younger and older groups.

    Just my thoughts, I really need a job.  Thanks for listening
    Glenda Wyatt
    Conroe,Texas
    936-537-2515


    ------------------------------
    Glenda Wyatt
    (936) 537-2515



  • 5.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-28-2019 13:09
    C. McPherren,
    I see that you are in Oklahoma City. If that is your base or home, I live in Fort Worth and would be glad to sit with you and your computer to help you with what I know regarding current programs used by landmen.
    I would also encourage anyone who is trying to reinvent themselves, to look at continuing education as a source of additional knowledge. I have recently started the Master's program in Energy Management at Oklahoma City University. This is the first year that this program has been completely on-line with the exception of a two-day residency in the beginning of the two years and two days again at the end. This is only one of two programs approved by AAPL, and so far it is truly amazing. I started in the industry in 1983 and know how challenging the "ups and downs" can be for individuals and their families.
    Please reach out to me if you would like help and we can discuss what you need regarding training.
    Carol Lowrance
    Landman
    Lowrance Land Services, LLC
    817-929-0404

    ------------------------------
    Carol Lowrance
    Principal
    Fort Worth TX
    (817) 929-0404
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-06-2019 16:17
    Have gone back to past clients to discuss this?  Is there a problem getting references from them.  Using local brokers is a cost saving measure and not a way of eliminating good landmen.  Also, I would not create issues by talk about discrimination if I was looking for work.

    ------------------------------
    William Smith
    Consulting Landman
    Midland TX
    (432) 682-6992
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-09-2019 16:11
    So, don't bring up issues just because he's looking for work?  I have heard of these issues as well  and the discussion shouldn't be suppressed.

    ------------------------------
    Bradley Shinn
    Student
    Mannford OK
    (918) 807-8987
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-06-2019 16:17
    I concur with all that you have stated.

    The advent of shale - a good thing for all - has changed much about our profession.

    First, ubiquitous leasing form 2007 to 2015 attracted many newby's into the business, especially in title and abstracting.  The large-scale work allowed brokers and operators to attract and use local people.  

    Unlike the old days, tech friendliness became as coveted as skills in royalty language translation, intestacy, pooling and Pugh clauses, Duhig Rule, and estates in land. Those things can be learned adequately in a couple of years.  Typing a lease on a kitchen table (and "office curative") is a skill no longer in demand.

    And OH YEAH!  There is much age discrimination - now called "experience" filtering.  Plus, our network is shrinking.

    I'll tell you what burns me are those who buy the "inconvenient truth" and are all morally superior about saving the earth. Yet they take the fossil fuel money. That would be like me being a hit man or working for planned parenthood for $1000/day.  I just would not do it. 

    We need to start AAPL Emeritus as a network for codgers like us.  At least stay in touch with everybody you ever had project time with.  

    Call me a deplorable with experience and a wanderlust.







  • 9.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-09-2019 16:11
    Very true! I love your explanation of age discrimination as experience filtering! I have been turned down hundreds of times because I don't have the experience they want, BUT I have the education! I can't get a job to obtain the experience employers want, a completely vicious cycle of discrimination.

    ------------------------------
    Bradley Shinn
    Student
    Mannford OK
    (918) 807-8987
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-09-2019 16:12
    I was just trying to join the group. I am looking for a ROW job. I have been in the business since 2006. I started off running title, then leasing mineral interest and then ROW agent. I love all of the work but ROW agent is my favorite. I am agreeing with Michael It is a little tougher now with all of the computer work than before but if we don't keep learning the new tech things we will be left behind.

    Glenda Wyatt
    Conroe, Texas
    936-537-2515

    ------------------------------
    Glenda Wyatt
    (936) 537-2515
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted 08-27-2019 14:40
    Edited by C. McPherren 08-28-2019 14:11
    This post was removed


  • 12.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-28-2019 13:11
    "Experience Filtering" ?
    The use of a term like that; or, downsizing, reduction in head count, non-revenue producing units is a way to dehumanize the value of workers who are the foundation and support of business.
    I believe that George Orwell once wrote of  a term dubbed "double speak".





  • 13.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-28-2019 13:14
    Things are just different from ever before.  The only thing that would take things retro is a big conventional discovery.  That isn't likely.





  • 14.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-06-2019 16:18
    I have been experiencing the same thing from Land Brokers, and unfortunately, I am one of the older Landmen.  Wanting to use only local landmen is probably a result of the companies wanting to cut cost by not paying hotel bills etc.  What they're not taking into consideration is the amount they will have to ultimately pay an attorney to straighten out the mess caused by work from "locals" (those who really aren't landmen but say they are....with little or no experience!!). My question is, is this coming from the company's or is this coming from the Land Broker?  A Company might do this because they don't want to pay hotel bills etc. and keep their cost down, but the fact that most counties are 100% online now negates this problem.  A Land Broker might do this in order to make more money using less-experienced landmen (more money in their pocket).  In either case, it is a travesty to the oil and gas industry and a boom for the legal attorneys.  And, as far as the age discrimination, they should be striving to hire people with the most experience regardless of age.  First of all, I can do the work in a day or two that would take an inexperienced landman a week (if he could figure it out at all), and secondly, would you want someone working for you who doesn't understand depth severances or HBP?  Talk about a lawsuit happening!!!!! No wonder the lawyers have quit trying so hard to make it where only they can be landmen!  They have a gold mine here! With all of this said, no one ever mentions what this does to the actual mineral owner. Unfortunately, this is usually of no concern to the Company or the Land Broker, but it should be. As I have experienced, the goodwill of the mineral owner community is extremely important in any prospect!  They can make you or break you, and what would they think if an inexperienced "landman" mishandled the mineral title ownership?  Not good!  The Company should be stressing the importance of using experienced landmen on their assignments to the Land Brokers. If you can't afford the higher day rates, fine.  Just tell us. We may be willing to work for less just to be working.
    If there are any Land Brokers out there who want experienced landmen, please let me know.
    Linda Johansson
    Nacogdoches, Texas
    936-234-9541


    ------------------------------
    Linda Johansson
    Independent
    Nacogdoches TX
    (936) 234-9541
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-06-2019 16:18
    Age discrimination is a terrible problem for landman over 50. It doesn’t matter if we are talking about permanent or contract jobs, landman over 50 are not considered. Over 60, is even worse. For most employers, CPL certification is not much of a consideration either. It’s truly sad.

    Nancy J. Smith, MBA, CPL




  • 16.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-06-2019 16:19
    Petroleum Exploration is a cyclical business. I joined AAPL the first time in 1981. Landwork is the leading task in the process of exploration & development. You should be aware of many recent articles citing money managers are pulling back on investing; natural gas is cheap and abundant, so abundant in fact that they are flaring most of it in the Permian & Delaware basin due to lack of pipelines. Other articles cite the number of drilled but uncompleted wells approaches a 9,000 backlog; and still other articles like the CEO of EQT in Pennsylvania describing how unprofitable the shale gas plays are.

    It's a game of musical chairs. Many landmen joined the business since 2000. Many will get flushed out over the next bust that's already started for landmen.  I'd recommend you diversify by getting proficient in more than title work. Wireless telecom would be a good diversity. in the Bust of '82 - I ripped out some of the nicest oil company offices in Liberty Tower (OKC) - swinging a hammer for $10.00/hr. I worked cleaning out buildings in Bricktown that Liberty Bank owned. I got a job with Coates Field Service in '85, doing right of way work for AT&T. I bought regenerator site leases. I survived, I bought tower sites for MCI-microwave, then Nextel, then Sprint. I got back into landwork in 2006 in Arkansas.

    Start looking for something else. Many title folks will be competing with you for the fewer jobs left. This shortaqe of jobs will also bring down your day-rates. Ben there, got the T-shirt.

    ------------------------------
    Pete Elder
    Crew Chief
    Pete Elder, LLC
    Edmond OK
    (501) 691-6912
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-06-2019 16:20
    I have not been able to find title work for about 5 years now. I live in Northwestern Pennsylvania and the brokers in Southwestern Pennsylvania will not even hire me because I am not local. I don't see how brokers can get enough workers that are local to fill a project. Things must have really changed in the oil and gas business.

    ------------------------------
    robert collins
    Warren PA
    (814) 779-5911
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-06-2019 17:00
    As one with the longest careers still in the play, I can tell you that part of the problem is just that the market is down right now.  

    Over optimism is rampant in this business.  Boom or Bust is just what it says.  Plays come and go.  When its down the cheaper local help will get the work.

    There could be a secondary lease play coming in late 2019 or 2020.  That's when Landmen will get busy and title people will be doing both abstracting and lease Ownerships.

    You have to hang-in or reinvent. 





  • 19.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-09-2019 16:11
    I am 68 and have not experienced age discrimination.  I agree that to survive in this business you must embrace changes in the industry.  If you get to the point where you don't want to learn anything new, it may be time to catch a cruise out of Galveston.  That seems to work for me.

    I thought the industry nearest to me was confined to the permian; but, it turns out the East Texas basin may be on the verge of a comeback when LNG plants on the coast get up to speed.  Some predict that could happen in 2020--as natural gas prices could rebound as a result.

    "There's a dark and troubled side of life, but there's a bright and a sunny side too." Author Unknown

    Keep on the sunny side!


    ------------------------------
    James Pennington RPL
    Independent
    Nacogdoches TX
    (936) 546-1088
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-09-2019 16:14
    If brokers where you would like to work will only hire local Landmen, you might consider getting a PO Box, in the area, & having your mail forwarded. Check the court houses to see who is active in those areas & check the AAPL directory. Skip using the Internet, phone & mail and simply show up to inquire about work. When I moved to Colorado things were slow & I did not know any of the players in the area. I went to as many oil companies as I could in one day. They were surprised to have a Landman come to their offices & explained how they worked exclusively through brokers and gave me the names of the brokers they used. In some instances they contacted their brokers about me. By the end of the day I had multiple people interested in talking to me about work.

    If the work is plentiful & the day rate works for you, rent a cheap place or find someone who wants to rent a room to someone who will be gone on the weekend & commute.

    Good luck!

    ------------------------------
    Rick Heinzmann
    Landman
    Charon Land & Title Services Ltd
    Fort Collins CO
    (989) 619-4544
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-13-2019 12:54
    Good thought.  If you work in pairs, convering your road expenses might work.

    Mick Toroian
    Perimeter Land Assoicates, LLC
    740-827-7273







  • 22.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-13-2019 12:56
    I suggest the advice of Mr. Toroian; i.e., "reinvent".

    I experienced two major downturns in the oil and gas industry.
    I reinvented after the first in the 1980's and became involved in telcom; i.e., leasing cell sites.  
    But even that type of land work faded out.

    I have been a field landman, land manager and VP Land, for a small independent.
    The downturns in the industry and were problematic as was the experience a lack of support from those that I had helped.

    The Oil and Gas industry is very cyclical and unless you are in control, or liked by someone who is, you will always be subject its volatility.
    I loved the industry, but it did not like me.

    So, with some regret, I say "reinvent".  As a landman, you do have wonderful transferable skills.
    Find something to do where you are in control or an industry not subject to the volatility of oil and gas.

    Best Luck Sir.

    H. J. Richard





  • 23.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-21-2019 09:34
    Diligence and a positive attitude are essential to navigating the job market. I am in the process of trying to reinvent myself and take back control of my life. I thought graduating Magna Cum Laude with a Bachelor's degree in Energy Land Management would have recruiters beating down my door, but it's been the exact opposite where I can't even get a call back. Check out my post on LinkedIn.

    https://www.linkedin.com/posts/alexander-j-romero-65b3a661_i-am-at-a-crossroads-in-my-life-ive-spent-activity-6565596169085468672-8CiU

    Alexander J. Romero, ELM
    713-231-8070






  • 24.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-22-2019 16:04
    I feel your pain! I too have a business degree from OU and still won't call me
    after 18 years of being a landman

    ------------------------------
    Stephen Holder
    Messiah Land Company Inc
    Oklahoma City OK
    (405) 249-7939
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-22-2019 16:05
    Okay - I will bite - what area did you go into? Title work?

    ------------------------------
    [Andrew Grohe]
    []
    [Andrew Grohe LLC]
    [San Antonio] [TX]
    [210-215-4689]
    (210) 215-4689(210) 215-4689
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted 08-27-2019 14:39
    Edited by C. McPherren 08-28-2019 14:12
    This post was removed


  • 27.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-28-2019 13:10
    I am disappointed to see some suggesting the issue of age discrimination not be discussed here and more so that others seem to deny it exists in this profession. First, age discrimination is verified across the occupations and professions, so why should it not be brought into question in this one? What would make this profession so unique it would be immune to this form of discrimination. Secondly, there is a documented history of gender discrimination in pay for professional landman jobs, and evidence that some brokers routinely base hiring decisions on gender - if there is gender discrimination, why would there not also be the same for age? 

    However, in this profession, like others where pay expectations are based in part on experience, it is common to see employers (brokers in this case) purposely seek less experienced employees in order to reduce their salary costs, which in turn increases their profits through hold-back. This is why you see early-retirement incentives in organizations, it is cheaper to move the older, higher-paid workers out of the way and replace them with lower-paid employees, albeit less experienced. This means the root cause of what appears to be age discrimination may not be so much about a person's age as it is their acceptable day rate/salary. 

    George R. Franks, Jr.
    Bullard, Texas
    franksgr@me.com






  • 28.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-28-2019 13:11
    I disagree that age discrimination is a major reason for the lack of landwork for some of the more experienced landmen. Field landwork has slowed dramatically for all landmen. For the last 6 plus years, most of the wells drilled in the lower 48 have been horizontal wells with 2 mile laterals which HPB 1280 acres.The vast majority of lands which contain resource plays have been leased or are HBP. Leasing has generated over 50% of all contract work for the last 40 years and it is all but over. The reality is that the need for field landmen is much lower than it has been and will continue to decrease. The industry is producing more oil and gas with way fewer rigs and therefore it needs fewer landmen, geologists, etc.. It is a painful reality, but a fairly large group of landmen will no longer find work in our industry and will be forced to change careers.
    Bob Brock  CPL
    Jackfork Land, Inc.
    Oklahoma City

    ------------------------------
    Robert Brock CPL
    Jackfork Land, Inc.
    Oklahoma City OK
    (405) 840-5999
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 08-28-2019 13:09
    Robert, I couldn't agree more, but a lot of the problem is lack of projects. I have worked on three different projects this year that just shut down for various reasons. I have been in this business for 30+ years and this is bad. The industry has changed and no broker/client wants to pay travel expenses. I get it. I have put drilling deals together and it's all about the economics. That all being said, sadly I would like to hear from other Landmen that have gone and done something else, especially old guys like me. WalMart is looking better all the time. At least steady and benefits. We all gotta hang the best we can.
    Thanks

    ------------------------------
    Rutledge Deas
    Professional Land LLC
    Spring TX
    (281) 796-8066
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 09-03-2019 14:04
    I didn't go to Wal-Mart but I have chosen to ride the down-turn (and possible recession) out with a large government agency. ROW in a public agency is very different than the smaller private firms I worked for in pipe lining, but it's related in terms of skill-set and good experience with another aspect of the industry. Of course, the pay is nowhere near what I was making as a Field Agent in ROW during the last LNG boom but I am not worried about my agency dropping a project (and me!) because of some shift in the price of tea. Furloughs are a possibility here, but it would take a lot more in the larger economy (as opposed to the industry) to bring those to pass. I figure if nothing else once oil and gas work picks back up I can approach land services outfits with a more diverse array of experiences and skills.

    ------------------------------
    Wes Temby
    Office Manager
    San Rafael CA
    (415) 407-2515
    ------------------------------



  • 31.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 09-05-2019 10:13
    Wes, what Public Agencies are you referring to? I live in Houston

    ------------------------------
    Rutledge Deas
    Professional Land LLC
    Spring TX
    (281) 796-8066
    ------------------------------



  • 32.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 09-05-2019 12:51
    Rutledge,

    I work for the State of California now, in the Department of Transportation (Caltrans). It's a big agency, and I work in the part of the state I like the most (the north). I get a lot of travel around the region, and the projects are interesting (if you like transportation infrastructure).

    ------------------------------
    Wes Temby
    ROW Agent
    Caltrans
    (415) 407-2515
    ------------------------------



  • 33.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 09-09-2019 13:55
    maybe try HDOT - Houston Dept. of Transportation
    Right-of-Way Work.......

    ------------------------------
    Robert Kent CPL
    Tex-Brit Corp
    Houston TX
    (972) 922-0348
    ------------------------------



  • 34.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 09-09-2019 13:56
    I have done the same, though am open to new opportunities as an RL; currently working for a company that has placed me in a state department of transportation survey and mapping office doing title work. Best wishes to you in your search for work.

    Christina Fry, RL

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 35.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 09-09-2019 13:56
    Wes,

    Did you have to get certified through the IRWA for this job?

    I’ve applied in the past for ROW jobs and never received a call and I’ve been a Landman for 19 years with experience in seismic permitting, a very small amount of pipeline ROW permitting work and of course an extensive amount of OGL leasing and title work.

    Darren




  • 36.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 09-10-2019 12:13
    The job did not require IRWA certs, but it doesn't hurt. My experience buying ROW was a big asset, especially in the Acquisitions department. There are other units that I will cycle and rotate through (Appraisals, Relocations, etc.), but ROW Acquisitions is where I am beginning.

    My experience with applying for government positions has been that the process takes quite a while. I feel very fortunate to be where I am, but I interviewed several times in several offices around the state.

    Good luck!

    ------------------------------
    Wes Temby
    Office Manager
    Penn Valley CA
    (415) 407-2515
    ------------------------------



  • 37.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 09-03-2019 14:04
    Hello all,
    I would like to recommend to all of you looking for an alternative way of earning a living, is to consider becoming an Independent Insurance Adjuster.  Is very simple to get the Texas insurance adjusters license.  I obtained my license in 2014, during one of my down turns, sent my resume to a couple of IA brokers and received a phone call and an offer to move to CO for 18 months to work for the biggest insurer in America.  Our skills transition very well to this industry and I was making landman money, but with reliability of work.  Since then when I have no land options I have been able to earn every year.  I have worked fires, hurricanes, hail storms.  There is no age discrimination in the IA world, I worked with plenty of people 60+.

    Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in here.


    Best of luck,

    Cameron Earley

    ------------------------------
    Cameron Earley
    Galveston TX
    (713) 377-3257
    ------------------------------



  • 38.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 10-01-2019 10:24
    Cameron, I took your advice and took the course and exam for IA work. I will get my fingerprints this week. I took the online course 2021. Once, I get my license, they are going to help me tweak my Resume and get on rosters. I have been in the Oil & Gas business, my whole career. 30+ years. I am distressed to see people put messages on here about CEO's of E&P companies wanting someone with paper on the wall instead of experience. I bet that CEO has never found a barell of oil in his career. The lack of work is real. I am trying to get out of landwork as fast as I can. I come from a very good background. I have worked for myself, for companies. One was Alta Mesa, that where the upper management was so greedy they ran it into the ground. The upper management of most companies could care less about their staff. The shale plays have pretty much wiped out the need for conventional landmen. The Due Diligence seems to be the most busy. That's because so many companies are going belly up, because the VC funds are drying up. If any of the companies, not the majors tried to drill wells on their cash flow, they won't last. I am looking for work all the time and I have too much experience. That's laughable and sad all at the same time. If you could give me some tips or advice, please let me have it. I will hopefully get my license next week. I am planning on going to a convention of Catastrophic adjusters in Vegas in January. Advice and tips welcome.

    ------------------------------
    Rutledge Deas
    Professional Land LLC
    Spring TX
    (281) 796-8066
    ------------------------------



  • 39.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 10-03-2019 15:06
    I have been reading most of this thread since it started. I have been a Landman since 1977, all but about five years of that was as an in-house Landman for various companies. The advice I will give to those Landmen who want to stay in the business and are looking for work is as follows:
    1. Proofread your work and your communication;
    2. Spellcheck everything that comes from you;
    3. Practice good work ethics, even if “everyone else is leaving early”; and
    4. Never compromise your character. As one of my mentors, Ed Pittman, once told me, “the only thing a Landman has is his/her reputation.”

    Some people may laugh at the first two items. Most companies don’t want you working for them if you cannot send an e-mail, letter or contract without proofreading and spellchecking what you send. It is a direct reflection on the company and/or person you are working for. It is also a direct reflection on you.

    I am proud to be a Landman. Stay positive and good luck! And proofread my message. I may have misspelled something.

    Bob Priestly, CPL
    Franklin, TX




  • 40.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 10-07-2019 10:32
    Ditto, Bob Priestly!
    (spell checked)


    JUSTIN D. CARPENTER, CPL
    RSOLUTIONS, INC.
    7702 South Washington
    Stillwater, OK  74074
    (405) 880-4246






  • 41.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 10-08-2019 15:35
    I was talking to the daughter of an old-timer landman who has now passed on.  The daughter told me that back in the 70's her father said: "There's no oil left here, it's all in the middle east."  There was no way he could foretell what was to come.  All he could go on was what he could see.  I wonder if history will repeat itself; or, if this is the really the beginning of the end for the oil and gas industry in this country?

    ------------------------------
    James Pennington RPL
    Independent
    Nacogdoches TX
    (936) 546-1088
    ------------------------------



  • 42.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 10-14-2019 16:57
    Need to read Twilight in the Desert. It's about the decline of the Saudi Oilfields. Gawar in particular. It's the technology that is staying one step ahead of declines, but the role of Landmen, especially contract independent Landmen is totally at the mercy of the biz and the Operators drilling wells. Big Land grab plays like the shales, typically don't need brokers, Landmen, etc...after awhile. The nature of the beast. There will always be the Wildcatters. My Dad was one, but they are a dying breed. The prices right now discourage people spending money and the VC guys are heading for the hills. Not all of em, but for leasing yep. They will never see the returns that they hoped. Just hang in there. Things always change.

    ------------------------------
    Rutledge Deas
    Professional Land LLC
    Spring TX
    (281) 796-8066
    ------------------------------



  • 43.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 10-14-2019 16:58
    James:  I started as a landman with Getty Oil upon graduation from college in 1974.  My father started as a landman in 1929, his father with Sohio (Standard Oil of Ohio) in 1911.  So - I grew up in the oil business.
    When I was 11 years old - I came home from school and found all of the furniture in the front yard.  My mom was crying.  Basically the price of oil had collapsed and I found out what Bankruptcy was.

    In college - I learned in economics class that Oil is a commodity.  We are in the commodity business.  It is boom and bust.  Its always been boom and bust.  When the exploration/land side of the business is booming you have to build cash and income, pay down any debt and get ready for the down cycle - because its coming.  When oil is booming - I always save and invest in dividend paying stocks, bonds and build cash.  When the crash comes - I take my cash and buy producing royalty in large unitized fields.

    I love this business and I love the hard working honest people in the business.  But every landman should know what our business is.  Its like corn, soy beans, pork bellies, etc.  A commodity with cyclical booms and busts.  Unfortunately the average landman or landwoman just does not seem to get the commodity part.  That the boom will be followed by a bust.

    The good news is that the cure for low oil prices - is as always - low oil prices.  With the shale drillers on longer able to raise debt and the rig count dropping - prices will recover and we will see another boom - followed as always by another bust.

    ------------------------------
    John Sipple
    Southern Oil Exploration, Inc.
    Fairhope AL
    (251) 517-7362
    ------------------------------



  • 44.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 10-17-2019 08:16
    I also grew up in the oil biz. Been in it for 35+ years. You are correct that Oil is a commodity. The difference is that we don't compete with OPEC for selling and domestic producers can't turn back the valves. The Shale has completely changed how Landmen are needed in this business. Once the land grab is over, there is not much left except curative etc... It's like the stock market. Can't time it, so it's tough to know when the bust or boom is coming. The Permian operators have about as much land as they need, and low prices are making everybody sit back and wait. Haynes Boone says that Bankruptcies are skyrocketing. The VC firms are running, because they paid way too much for acreage and will never see a decent return. I saw the same thing happen in the Haynesville. It's limping along, but land work is scarce. 325.00/day is tough after you put taxes and insurance in there oh and don't forget self employment taxes. Damn near poverty level. Just gotta hang in there

    ------------------------------
    Rutledge Deas
    Professional Land LLC
    Spring TX
    (281) 796-8066
    ------------------------------



  • 45.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 10-22-2019 12:54

    Mr. John Sipple and Mr. Bob Priestly,

    Your story and advice are full of practical wisdom. Thank you so much for your post!



    ------------------------------
    Julio Garza RPL
    J.C. Garza Enterprises, Inc.
    Gonzales TX
    (210) 889-8809
    ------------------------------



  • 46.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 10-23-2019 16:19
    If you have the option to get out - do it.  Shale development does not have the lease cycling of 5 to 10 years of expirations.  Declared units hold acreage for longterm secondary terms.  The work is shrinking, in mnay cases, not to expand.

    Too band "wind" is such an abomination.  Again, I say its a shame we have to compete with unprinicipled Greenies who like the money while they complicitely destroy their "mother earth". 

    Mick Toroian
    Perimeter Land Assoicates, LLC
    740-827-7273







  • 47.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 10-24-2019 13:03
    With respect to what everyone is saying about lack of work I wish to share my experience since 2014.

    In March of 2014 we got laid off in ND and on the way home I stopped for a night and looking at on-line posts I found one for a wind farm. I got the job before I got home. A two year project, then back in oil, then back on a wind farm, and now in MO on a transmission line project that will last 18-24 months. The wind farms were going up long before all of this "renewable push".

    Lastly, in 2007 I was asked if I could get 4 people, besides myself to go to New York and I contacted many landman in TX and OK who would not take the job. Now, our per diem was $12.00 for lunch. 5 of us stayed in a house. We ate a lot and of course our allocation of liquid diet and paid all the bills on the job and at home. It took about 2 days of work per month to pay the rent and heating bill.

    Since that time I had some 1 yr gigs and some 3 month gigs. As noted above I did whatever I could to in stay in the land business. The pay sometimes was not good but it paid the bills. What helped was being contact you can deduct just about everything and still pay the bills.

    I know it rough right now and for the immediate future however doing something in the area of land work is better than nothing al all.

    ------------------------------
    Gene Mall
    Chamois MO
    (405) 818-9544
    Gene
    ------------------------------



  • 48.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 10-29-2019 11:47

    Hi Guys,

     

    This is a people business. You need to be likeable and competent. You need to get your billing in on time and help your broker make his business profitable. These are the key components of continually being hired as a landman. CPL designation allows the broker to bill more money for you to the client, so get your CPL for your broker's sake.

     

    Being the best damn landman out there doesn't get you much if you are not likeable. Of course I am not likeable and am constantly looking for work – at least I know my issue.

     

    Best - Andrew

     

    Sent from Mail for Windows 10

     






  • 49.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 10-30-2019 10:57

    Hilarious Andrew, I am sure you are likeable, you have to be with that sense of humor!

     

    Michelle Smith

     

    VP Land

    The Quiat Companies

    1873 So. Bellaire St., #900

    Denver, CO 80222

     

    720-723-2770 Office

    720-318-2763 Cell

    michelle@quiatcompanies.com

     

     



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  • 50.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 11-05-2019 09:55
    I have found likeable to be a relative term.  When you run in to easy title and tell you boss, "no problem" you're likeable.  When you get in to a cut up mess that takes forever to resolve, you may not be so likeable when you say "Houston, we have a problem."  When you are giving people money, you are usually likeable.  Not being able to include their provisions, not likeable.

    Being professional, not  always likeable.

    So, I guess I'm both.

    ------------------------------
    James Pennington RPL
    Independent
    Nacogdoches TX
    (936) 546-1088
    ------------------------------



  • 51.  RE: Landwork or Lack Thereof

    Posted 11-05-2019 09:56